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  • tipoo - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    It's good that they finally got around to this, but completely scummy that they waited 4 years by which time most people would have moved on.

    I think this problem was with the BGA under the GPU, the lead free solder cracking under repeated heat cycles. I think my 2009 Dell Studio 15 is dying a similar death, only turns on when I leave it in a limbo state to get really hot.
  • tipoo - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Also I wish Apple put a little more into cooling, even to this date. My new Haswell rMBP 15" runs at up to 99 degrees Celsius under load, while tJunction max for Haswell is only 100. That's worrying. It's under the Intel reccomended point for now, but only just - what happens in the summer, or in a few years when there's dust in the vents?

    http://ark.intel.com/products/83505/Intel-Core-i7-...
  • Flunk - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    You know the answer to that, it will throttle the frequency into the ground. This is a common problem with Apple's higher-end stuff.
  • Maltz - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    If it's running that close to the line, it's probably already throttling.
  • tipoo - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    I keep an eye on the frequencies, and no it isn't. The GPU is always at the highest turbo, the CPU mostly is, and the odd time it does scale back is only to the base clock anyways, not throttling down past that.
  • WinterCharm - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Anandtech's review of the rMBP says that it's able to run at max temps under max load WITHOUT throttling :) Now, you will definitely want to keep the vents clean, though :)
  • tipoo - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    That's true, mine does not throttle, but I always found Anandtechs max temperature test lacking on that. Just going off memory, they used Half Life 2 to hit 78C? That's not a good enough load, mine hits 99C as I said on modern games. HL2 was old even when that article came out (they only tested the Ivy Bridge one, which probably could have run hotter than the Haswell).
  • tipoo - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Here it was, max GPU temp was actually 72 in that test. Not a realistic absolute max, especially as IVB would have run hotter than Haswell

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/6023/the-nextgen-mac...
  • FelixDraconis - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    My 15" Retina at work is starting to randomly freeze. We stuck it up on a laptop shelf and it's stopped crashing for now.

    Was great for two and a half years. Now probably choking on heat.
  • Samus - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    I very rarely see any apple pc last more than 5 years, especially notebooks. Compared to thinkpad's and elitebook's that last a decade and meet military MIL-STD-810G spec's...I think people who buy apple hardware are simply misinformed.

    I fix more Macbook motherboards than all other PCB reflows combined.
  • WinterCharm - Thursday, February 26, 2015 - link

    Typically, once a laptop is 5 years old, it's high time to upgrade.

    Also, I suspect it's because apple runs them at the edge of thermal limits. CPU and GPU often hits 95ºC on a macbook pro. A few years of that, and I can realistically see a higher fail rate.

    Of course, it doesn't help that they want thin laptops, too :P
  • Daniel Egger - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    It's a manufacturing or even a design defect. So it's possible that the same problem exists in more than one hardware generation.

    However no thanks go to Anandtech for not doing their journalistic duty and properly following through with this problem which is also why you don't have much other information than Apple provides... If it wasn't for the community and some greedy^Hcouraged law firms there likely wouldn't have been any action from Apple at all.

    An evil mind might even speculate that this is related to Anand moving over to Apple...
  • SpartyOn - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Unfortunately, I have to agree with the general perception of this post. This is a serious issue from a leading computer manufacturer that took years to announce a fix. This is essentially a RECALL and should be defined as such and filed with the FTC.

    This article does smack of bias because if this were Samsung, Dell, Nvidia, Lenovo, etc. you'd be all over them for a response and working to investigate further (see recent Nvidia GTX 970 articles on Anandtech). I understand that this post is meant to be more of an informative piece to alert Apple consumers to this RECALL, but I truly hope Anandtech will do some investigative journalism to get us some answers.

    Apple should not get a free pass from the media.
  • TiGr1982 - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Well, it's everywhere in North America - approximately one in two people exhibits irrational love to Apple (iven if it's a techie person) and is ready to forgive anything, if it's Apple. iHamsters.
    I personally live in North America for more than 5 years already, but I never understood or supported this special attitude towards Apple. Never will, probably.
  • Mondozai - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    It's nationalism, basically. Yeah, you have other NA-based companies like Dell/HP but they are iterative in their work. Apple is really the only world-class hardware tech company in the U.S. 'Murica has a lot of high-quality software companies but it has only one hardware company in the stratosphere and that's Apple.
  • TiGr1982 - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    TBH, some Dell/HP PC models are inferior to the ones of ASUS/Lenovo (especially casual consumer ones), so, with, Dell/HP, you have to research what you are buying. Dell/HP PCs are not exciting, really, so that, TBH, Apple does much better job with their Macs in terms of hardware level of executon (better bodies, screens etc).
  • Alexvrb - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    I think the new XPS 13 is quite nice (Anandtech has an article on it). Has some good display options too.
  • TiGr1982 - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Just to add, I've used Macs, iPads and iPhones of my work/study places, as well as my friends. However, I personally find nothing special in iDevices, and see no motivation in buying any of these.
    So, I'm not in this iHype camp.
  • TEAMSWITCHER - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    It's NOT irrational. Having owned a MacBook Pro at the same time I went through two different PC's - each plagued with unresolved problems. I developed a certain fondness for my MacBook Pro - it was a dependable and trouble free. Even my new Six Core Haswell-E PC (hoping the third time would be the charm) has been off to a very rough start, I'm already on my third ASUS X-99 Motherboard and the last two BIOS updates would randomly drop DIMM modules...for no apparent reason.

    From my experience PC Hardware Problems waste TEN TIMES more productivity that performance issues on the Mac. That and Windows 8.1 is a BLAND experience at best - a mere "good enough for the kind of girls I hang out with" OS.
  • Black Obsidian - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Count yourself fortunate that your MBP wasn't affected by a hardware problem that Apple took 2-4 years to bother acknowledging, then.

    This isn't the first instance of Apple 'fessing up to problems years down the line, either. That's the thing that scares me away most about buying their hardware (aside from the loss of battery life and touchpad features I'd suffer by running Windows on it); at least if I end up with a defective machine or part from Dell/Asus/Lenovo/etc., I can count on the RMA process to get me a replacement in days or weeks, rather than years.
  • Valis - Monday, February 23, 2015 - link

    It's now, that years of selling this overpriced intel-standard component crud that they can finance a RMA on these without losing too much money. :P
  • solipsism - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    LOL Now Apple gets a free pass by the media. That's fucking rich. This is a well-worn issue with Macs so AT noted now that Apple has finally done something about it. No fanboyism in the manner in way they pointed this out to readers.

    BTW, where were you on the SuperFish article? My guess is if Apple was doing that in Mac OS X, not Lenovo, this thread would be much longer and major media outlets would be talking about it. This all has to do with mindshare, and Lenovo has nothing compared to Apple, which is why Apple gets attacked over every little thing compared to their constituants.
  • DarkStryke - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Welcome to post-Anand, Anandtech.
  • WaltC - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Nothing evil about it...Anand's interests and expertise had been devolving for years before he sold the site. It started about the time he got interested in gpus (and began moving away from motherboards.) I don't think he really understood gpus to any degree--or much wanted to understand them, imo. It's difficult to believe that anyone who cares about technology would be the slightest bit interested in Apple products--as the company simply repackages what other companies manufacture, more or less, and is certainly much more of a Dell competitor than it is a Microsoft competitor. Apple is a 'parts consortium', and is a company designed for people who'd rather not take the time to pick & choose their components. Of course, I'm someone who loathes laptops--don't care who makes them--and has built his own desktops since 1995. Laptops are trouble, period. Just take a look at any game forum you choose--by far the most problems are reported by laptop owners. Yes, I'm prejudiced--but it comes from experience...;)
  • Daniel Egger - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    > It's difficult to believe that anyone who cares about technology would be the slightest bit interested in Apple products

    That's nonsense. Apple had been driving the driving the whole industry for decades with their inventions and highest demands in the sourced components, on some of them they even secured exclusivity for a few months (CPUs, Thunderbolt, ...). Anyone who wanted to have only the best of the best had to go Apple for many years unless they wanted to compromise.

    Unfortunately they really dropped the ball a few years ago with their laptop lineup: I mean there was the magsafe, unibody, the ultrabook form factor, SSD cards, retina displays, thunderbolt and that's pretty much the end of the story.
  • RT81 - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    It depends on what you mean by "caring about technology". If you mean from a tinkerer's perspective, maybe, but not necessarily. If you mean from the perspective of harnessing technology into seamless, finished product and seeing what you can accomplish with it, certainly not. These two perspectives are mutually exclusive, either.
  • KoolAidMan1 - Saturday, February 21, 2015 - link

    "Of course, I'm someone who loathes laptops"

    Nobody cares
  • Ryan Smith - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Just so it's noted, this is no different than our treatment of the 2011 iMac. Though we're a bit less befuddled since this is a laptop with a soldered-on GPU instead of a quasi-desktop with an MXM card.

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/7228/apple-initiates...

    Unfortunately the only other people who do know what's up (AMD and NVIDIA) are going to be as silent as Apple on the matter. So it's difficult to get any additional information about the problem. In the meantime we only comment on matters in which we can offer a reasonable degree of insight.
  • Samus - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Wow, aren't you late for bingo night?
  • Colin1497 - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Considering that the problems were covered by Ars Technica in 2011 and that there's a class action lawsuit against Apple over the problem, I personally find it SHOCKING that Apple is addressing this in 2015. Reading comments on the Ars Technica article, there are a ton of people who have paid Apple to have their machines repaired over the past 4 years or just dumped the machines completely.
  • TiGr1982 - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Nothing particularly shocking here - this resource, as most in North America, "pray" on Apple most of the time. So that's not news, really.
  • TEAMSWITCHER - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Of the four 2011 Macbook Pro's in our shop, only one has suffered this issue, and Apple took care of the problem in just short two days. This "HUGE PROBLEM" has largely been handled already. I highly doubt ASUS, DELL, LENOVO, of SAMSUNG could have (or even would have) fixed the problem any quicker.
  • Black Obsidian - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Asus, Dell, and Lenovo (can't speak to Samsung) have well-oiled troubleshooting and RMA processes that will resolve your issue in as little as one business day, and are capable of escalating all the way up to "clearly there's a systematic defect here, we'll replace the whole thing with a different model."

    Then there's Apple, who needed 4 years and a class-action lawsuit to do right by their customers.

    It's unfortunate that paying the fat margins Apple commands doesn't get you anything close to the support that Asus, Dell, and Lenovo provide on razor-thin margins.
  • klagermkii - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Please. I can tell you that Dell or Samsung aren't going to do anything about your out-of-warranty laptop. Apple is quite fine at dealing with problems within warranty or AppleCare.

    This is Apple offering to fix a five year old laptop for free. Dell et all just cover up their problems, while their customers shrug their shoulders and have grown to expect their laptop to die so don't suspect any broader failure trend.
  • Daniel Egger - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    > This is Apple offering to fix a five year old laptop for free.

    The oldest of the affected laptops is not even 4 years old. The failure typically occurs 2-3 years after buying them and Apple had their customers pay lots of money to mitigate (not fix!) the problem in many cases reocurring again after short time.

    It sounds nice when you tell it your story like that but the reality is that some paid big money and time to get the problem fixed when in reality Apple only replaced a time bomb that just went off with a new one that was still ticking. A real fix is the absolute minimum Apple can offer for the damage they've caused...
  • Crunchy005 - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    In my experience Dell does not have a great troubleshooting process and if you have ever owned a Mac and been to the genius bar or talked to AppleCare support they are just as efficient if not more so. My first mac I owned was a early 2008 MacBook pro. It was one of the models that had the defective Nvidia card in it, thanks Nvidia for that shipment, anyways I brought it to apple they sent it in and my new one came back in about 3 days shipped right to my house. These models also got a repair extension like this 4 years down the line (ie. after applecare is done). So most cases of this have most likely already been fixed through applecare and only the 2011, 2012 models will be out of the applecare coverage at this point. The fact that it took 4 years is it is apparently a large enough issue that they are extending service for issues with the GPUs. I don't know why apple is getting attacked for doing this 4 years down the line when the issue would have been fixed UNDER WARRANTY up till about a year ago for the oldest models.
  • TEAMSWITCHER - Sunday, February 22, 2015 - link

    You're kidding right?
  • Daniel Egger - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    With the invention of the Genius Bars the service quality went *way* down. Years ago when a device was broken you would call them, they'd send UPS with matching packaging, you put your device in, you seal it, they take it away, deliver it to the depot, fix it and ship it back the same night. My personal record for a logic board swap was a mere 22h.

    Now when you call they'll only schedule a Genius Bar appointment (in a week if you're unlucky) in the next bigger city where you have to drive your stuff to, then sometimes you have to wait in shop for your genius, then they'll look at the device, try stuff, take it in (which can easily take an hour), you drive away and a few days later (if you're lucky) you get a call and may drive back to the city to pick up your device.

    That's a *worlds* difference, from the absolute best service you could get anywhere to the absolute worst you can get anywhere.

    All others may not be quite as swift as Apple was back then but at least they're not wasting my precious time by letting me travel long distances and having me wait...
  • MasterRee - Saturday, February 21, 2015 - link

    Daniel, I understand that's been your experience, but I don't think you're being fair. This is definitely not the worst service you can get anywhere. Have you dealt with the Geek Squad at Best Buy? The service at the Genius Bar is generally much higher quality.

    If you have Apple Care you can still do just what you described. You can choose to go one of the stores whether you are in warranty or not. The stores are in large population centers. That is where the most return on investment would be and is true of many retail chains that have a limited number of stores (for example, Ikea). I would also point out that I don't know of any other OEM that has more stores in more places than Apple. There is also the option of authorized third party service providers who can repair Apple products and honor Apple's warranty because they are authorized by Apple and will be reimbursed by Apple for warranty repairs. Those providers are generally numerous and may be much more accessible than an Apple Store.

    If you can't make a Genius Bar reservation, then you can always walk in, but like anywhere that takes reservations - you may have to wait if you don't have them. This is not a unique problem to Apple and I think they generally as good or better service than any other consumer line of computers.

    And to posters referencing service under the Dell, HP or Lenovo enterprise contracts that may indeed have faster turn around times or better repair options, that is an entirely different business and warranty model and should not be properly compared with a consumer product line's service and warranty. The costs of those contracts are far higher and are specifically targeted at the enterprise. If you compare Apple's warranty and service options to other consumer electronics warranties and service options I think you will find that they compare quite favorably.

    I'm not denying that Apple's service options could be improved, but I think they are far from the "absolute worst you can get anywhere" even at their worst.
  • TheFreeman - Sunday, February 22, 2015 - link

    I created an account because I wanted to clear something up: to my knowledge, any ThinkPad can be purchased with this "enterprise" warranty. I've had Lenovo ship out parts for my machine within 16 hours before, as well as send out a technician in 2 business days. I do not own a business, I just bought the extended warranty for 3 years (and $300). Comparable to Apple Care.

    I still feel Apple is ahead of Lenovo in most other areas, but not extended warranty service.
  • trparky - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Apple isn't the only computer maker that's been having issues with graphics card chips overheating in notebook computers. I've come to the simple conclusion, if you want a high-end graphics card... get a desktop. Notebooks simply don't have the space needed for the required cooling for a high-end graphics chip.

    Both my brother's and father's HP notebooks with decent graphics chips in them suffer for overheating from one degree or another. My brother's notebook gets so hot that you can feel the heat through the keyboard. My father's notebook gets so hot that the graphics chip fails and causes the Windows WDDM driver to restart.

    As I stated above, I have come to the conclusion that if you want a high-end graphics card... get a desktop.
  • wurizen - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    It's PC manufacturer supply and demand scheme or greed screwing Apple in the end. I say that because the PC space is a rat race. Components being built by who knows what standard. And Apple products whose standards are higher are having to share the same space of lowest common denominator.
  • Dr_Orgo - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Claiming that you can't have a decent GPU in a notebook is stupid. Using an HP notebook as the basis of your claim is even more stupid. If you want a dedicated GPU in a notebook, buy one designed with that TDP in mind. Thin and light gaming notebooks handle dedicated GPUs just fine. With improvements in power efficiency in modern GPUs (Nvidias 900 series especially), dedicated GPUs in notebooks make more sense than ever. The new Razer Blade 14 or Gigabyte p34g are examples of well designed thin and light gaming notebooks.
  • wurizen - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Are you replying to the post above this? If so, it doesn't seem relevant. Relevantly reply and I can reply back. Thanks!
  • wurizen - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    I think this is an issue of QC and shaving off $$$ in the process. I don't know what it takes to make a notebook. But, I am merely speculating that Apple decided to use a cheaper process to keep the prices of their MBP in line without increasing them.

    Or another speculation in line with above: Apple is not trying to save $$$. But, merely using the same components/ETC to make a notebook. But, are putting the same components into a more elegant chassis that is the unibody 15 MBP and Apple is underestimating or have been "deceived" by those component manufacturers that they will work. I say deceived because those component manufacturers are making the same components for Dell Notebooks.

    So, basically, Apple has been forced by the manufacturers etc to create their notebooks using the same tech and concerns that are given to Dell notebooks (fatter notebooks, better thermals). Thus, logically, the MBP's will fail down the road due to manufacturing constraint or deceit or pure consipiracytistic ploys by their competitor, Dell, whose notebooks are made in the same factory.

    Or it could just be Apple's over optimistic view of tech and trust in Intel and modern GPU's that the cpu's and gpu's inside their MBP's will throttle, etc. Thus, keeping itself cool and safe in whatever thermal environment it is in.
  • wurizen - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    It's interesting that the Powerbooks never had any of these issues. And these notebooks don't share components from PC manufacturers.

    It's the PC manufacturers supply and demand scheme screwing Apple in the end.
  • solipsism - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    There were plenty of issues with per-Intel Mac video cards.
  • wurizen - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    I have a 12" Powerbook. I've taken it apart multiple times. Re-applied thermal paste.* And, if you've taken apart these Powerbooks, you know how many screws there are and how difficult it is just by the sheer amount of things to detach then re-attach later. But, whatever. No issues with it. I've disassembled this Powerbook multiple times over the years because a DVD was stuck in the superdrive. And, I dropped it once creating a dent on left-hand corner where the power cord attached and I thought I could hammer the dent back in place from the inside. No luck there. Lol. But, taking the thing apart, putting it back together and heavy use over the years using Final Cut Pro, etc. has given me no issues. The thing is like a tank. I really love the unibodies in comparison because of how much simpler it is to take the thing apart. But, it seems like the issues with these unibodies are either bad manufacturing, choice of manufacturers (Apple probably has no choice here), bad quality control, conspiracytistic ploys employed by Dell (Macbook Pro components are made in the same Factory as Dell products); technology growing pains (Apple is over-optimistic with Intel CPU's and modern GPU's to throttle itself down depending on turmoil environment without causing damage to the logic board); or the logic boards are not made with the same stuff the Powerbook logic boards were made from (less tolerance; cost-saving)......

    Jeez, I'm rambling, but you get my jest....

    Anyone here comprende?

    I love my conspiricytistic theory the best.
  • wurizen - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    auto-correct corrected thermal to turmoil (above) Sorry!
  • wurizen - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    And what GPU issues did Powerbook suffer from? I guess I wasn't a mac forum surfer back then to be aware of them.
  • wurizen - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    the reason why I love my Dell-conspiracy theory is that I kind of wish Apple would move the production of the MBP's away from the same plant as Dell. Maybe, as if by magic, these manufacturing defects will stop happening??????
  • varun_g - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    any updates if they will extend the same to 13" macbook pro from 2011?
  • eanazag - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    From the facts - I would blame Apple engineering or manufacturing as opposed to AMD or Nvidia graphics cards. We could all guess that this is a result of the aggressive form factors. It can also occur from cabling or wire routing. We don't have the details.

    I have had issues with Dell hardware and Dell never came out and offered repair after the fact, nor offered reimbursement for the repairs that it cost me. If I have no warranty, Dell don't care. For many of us that have worked on computers for a living or for family and friends we have come across issues that seem to be epidemic with a given model and the manufacturer does no repair. I can think of two off the top of my head. Dell had a crappy power button that was embedded in the laptop display hinge. The power button would fall out or break when the hinge would separate over time. I saw the laptop twice for the same issue. I worked on a Toshiba that the hinge for the display that broke the base where it screws in. When looking for replacement frames I found newer models with advertised stronger hinge screw mounts. Evidently they new to fix it but no repair program. I had a Dell laptop with a 3 year warranty and the dGPU in it went bad. After 3 attempted repairs I had the same issue so they gave me a newer model. That new model eventually had the GPU go bad in it. I bought a new replacement from Dell to install after the warranty was expired and it went bad also. It was a Nvidia Geforce 4200 GO or something. No Dell repair program.

    I understand people are quick to want to beat up Apple here. Apple is making a commitment to taking care of their customers. I believe this is what is necessary to take care of customers for a high end brand. Is this a repair program or a recall program? I think since safety is not the issue here it is a repair program.

    What's with the animosity towards Anandtech? I miss Anand too. Plus I'm not all that excited about the Purch purchase. If you want to complain, the ad pixel sizes have been growing. Look at the top where Staples ad is. Move that ish. I miss the Daily tech feed too.
  • kuroi - Friday, February 20, 2015 - link

    Certainly a step in the right direction, though I've had 3 logic board replacements in less than a year. While it will be nice to have my initial repair cost refunded, nothing short of replacement of the machine will resolve the issue. Am I to believe after 3 LB repairs my machine is now truly fixed ?

    Add to that list a main battery replacement after 2 years and a replacement power adapter whose plastic housing disintegrated after 2 years. Truly disheartening :-(

    How is this repair different from the previous three I've already had ? What happens if my machine fails again in another year, then what ? Anyone who has had two or more logic board failures should be given the option of having their machine replaced.
  • MasterRee - Saturday, February 21, 2015 - link

    I would suggest that if you have had three main logic board repairs performed within a year by an Apple store, then you should tell them just that ask for a replacement unit. If you are still within the warranty (limited warranty or Apple Care), then I think you will be quite happy with the resolution.
  • Valis - Saturday, February 21, 2015 - link

    My brother has had 2x MBP (different years that has just stopped working), first was video/GPU I think as I swapped out the system board for an enormous amount of money (bought it used on ebay), 2nd one is just slow when running on battery, not when using wall hugger device (pun intended). I told him, never again an Apple computer.
  • PatrickA - Monday, February 23, 2015 - link

    I think apple must have missed some serial numbers.. I have an early 15" 2011 MacBook pro which has the same exact video issues as shown on the many webpages describing the issue. Yet apple does not include the serial number of my computer.. I AM NEVER GOING TO WASTE MY MONEY ON ANOTHER PIECE OF APPLE PRODUCT....TOO MANY WORMS IN IT FOR MY WALLET TO ENDURE.
  • dmunsie - Monday, February 23, 2015 - link

    I would take it into an Apple store then. Even if it's not in the range of serial numbers, if it's showing the symptoms, there is a good chance they'll fix it for you now.
  • pauljosaph - Monday, February 23, 2015 - link

    Apple has also provided users with a list of issues which will help them know if they are eligible. These include random restarts, no video on screen and flickering images on the screen.
    http://www.bidnessetc.com/35312-apple-inc-starts-f...

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